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Sax on the Web Forum / Selmer saxes / Black Lacquered MkVI?

Next 20 Messages
Andres
User ID: 1543764
Jul 15th 7:05 PM
I was prowling EBay and found this for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=893986979

And it knocked me out. I had no idea that Selmer did this with VI's (I thought it started with the SA80 series).

Does anyone know if this is a one-of-a-kind or not?
Brice B.
User ID: 0763414
Jul 15th 8:15 PM
I passed out for about an hour, too. wow. Can't imagine what that thing must be worth. I wonder if it's one of a kind? wow.
lookinforasax
User ID: 9461303
Jul 15th 9:02 PM
its gonna go for $5000...thats my guess!

Brian
AG
User ID: 9892733
Jul 15th 11:41 PM
It may have been a custom special order for someone.....1st black lacquered VI I've ever seen or heard of that's a "factory original".
mostly alto guy
User ID: 0122954
Jul 16th 1:29 AM
What it doesn't play well or sound good. I admit it's a surprising looking horn, but worth 5 grand? Even if it's the only original blaclac MK VI in the world (which is unlikely since so many VIs were made), it's still unknown how it plays.

But someone proably will pay $4,500 or more, without ever blowing a note on it.
AG
User ID: 9892733
Jul 16th 5:19 AM
Collectors will be skeptical without proof of authenticity........has anyone else ever heard about a VI that came new with factory black lacquer? Gold lacquer or silver and gold plate is all I've ever seen or knew of.
lookinforasax
User ID: 9461303
Jul 16th 10:25 AM
mostly alto guy: thats excatly what i was thinking. WHo kares how it plays..when it COULD be a valuable collectors item??!?!?!


Brian
Steve Goodson
User ID: 0067194
Jul 16th 12:02 PM
I never saw one in black lacquer, but that of course does not mean that they don't exist. I would require absolute proof (sales receipt specifying the finish or original catalog listing such an option) before I would believe it. I've seen a number of them done up in various colors.
Tom
User ID: 1112324
Jul 16th 8:48 PM
I'm not an expert. I looked at the digital photos scrupulously. I wonder if someone didn't take an unengraved Tenor, have it stripped, lacquered in black, then engraved with Selmer style engraving. I will have to say however, that the engraving looks very 'factory'. This does go against my conjecture. The keys look so good that it seems like they might be gold plated instead of lacquered brass.

If it is a fake, it is a VERY well done one. If it is a factory black lacquer horn, it is the first and only one I have ever even heard of, let alone seen digital photos of.
lookinforasax
User ID: 0296604
Jul 16th 8:59 PM
tom...since the keys look almost brand new, they have either been taken kare of very very well, or never been touched (or played). I highly doubt a person would get this specific saxophone and wouldnt play it!!

The engraving does look very "factory" (in your words), and i think it is the real thing.

Brian
Steve Goodson
User ID: 0067194
Jul 17th 7:24 AM
I know of a number of engravers (including one who was formerly the engraver at Selmer in Elkhart) who can easily duplicate or recut original engraving. I'd have to see some paperwork to believe this is original.
mostly alto guy
User ID: 0122954
Jul 17th 3:45 PM
If it is a genuine and documented original blaclac, I'm AMAZED that it could be for sale. How many of you guys would sell it if it were yours? I wouldn't let it go for anything less than twice the going rate for lacquer models, and then only if I was being chased down by a laon shark or something. And I don't even particularly like MK VIs. One more thing--what other original blaclac horns have you seen from this date, from any maker?
lookinforasax
User ID: 0296604
Jul 18th 2:50 PM
in the 4th picture fomr the bottom, the one taking a pic of the bottom\back...look in the very middle. Does it not look like there WAS engraving there?? Could a re-engraver have "missed", when he\she was re-engraving the sax?

Brian
beezer
User ID: 2261164
Jul 18th 4:04 PM
I'm with Steve Goodson and lookin on this one. I don't think the engraving looks original. It looks clumsy. There's definitely signs of old engraving under the new on some of the pics. I'd want Henri's signature on the provenance for this one.
Cheers, Dave
lookinforasax
User ID: 0296604
Jul 18th 5:36 PM
so that "old engraving" under where the bell separates from the body is real? kool...didnt think i was right!

Brian
rhino004
User ID: 0875014
Jul 19th 5:29 PM
KRYLON comes to mind.....!
GaryL
User ID: 9565813
Jul 19th 11:26 PM
An unengraved horn from Europe or Canada, stripped, black lacquered, then engraved for the FIRST time would work too, wouldn't it?

Remember Hitler's Diaries that showed up a few years back? Spoofs, hoaxes, and frauds are not new, at least to observant people who have memory and a few years under their hat. I have never seen an original black lacquer MVI, nor even heard of one until now. Until this has been examined by a trusted expert, such as Paul Coats, I remain fully skeptical of this saxophone.
Peter
User ID: 9447203
Jul 20th 3:10 PM
Plz keep in mind that the Dutch seller is a well known and recognized seller and repairman of saxophones. Not to say he's the best in Holland beside 2 or 3 other.
I travelled about 400 km (200km up and 200km down) to let him completly overhaul my Martin Handcraft Tenor at his shop and I'm not alone. I don't trust any other repairshop beside the 2 or 3 I mentioned.
I have no doubt that the Mk 6 is original.


T.S.
User ID: 8882983
Jul 20th 6:30 PM
Selmer did experiment with different colored lacquers for a very short time in the 60's.(I think mid-sixties, but I could be in error there) Dexter Gordon had a Lavender factory painted VI that is now owned by a Danish player. I don't know how many different colors were tried, but my understanding is that there were very few horns finished this way.
Paul C.
User ID: 0534004
Jul 20th 8:39 PM
As a teenager, in the late '60's, I wore out about half a dozen Selmer sax catalogs/price lists, from carrying them around in my back pocket, drooling over the horns at every opportunity. I can say that black lacquer was not offered by Selmer, and in fact was unheard of in those days.

The Mk VI was offered in gold lacquer, silver plate, gold plate, and yes, even nickel plate. The plated finishes were available only on special order. Price of nickel and silver were printed. Gold plate varied, and was a "Price on Request" item. NO black lacquer was listed, I can assure you.

By the time I was in college, about 1973, a friend had returned from a trip to Europe. There he saw a red lacquered saxophone in a jazz club. So, apparently colored lacquer was at least known in Europe at that time.

I have no idea if the factory offered colored lacquers. If so, they did not do it in the US.

From my look at the pictures, I see lots of places where the engraving was not recut, filled with the blue. It is obvious the blue or black was not the original lacquer, but applied sometime after it left the factory.

Ho hum.
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